From hilbricht at linopus.de Mon Jul 2 11:32:48 2007 From: hilbricht at linopus.de (Tobias Hilbricht) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 11:32:48 +0200 Subject: [Skencil-users] Skencil-users Digest, Vol 16, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: <200706250829.14325.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> References: <200706250829.14325.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> Message-ID: <1183368768.5550.18.camel@phoebus> Am Montag, den 25.06.2007, 08:29 -0500 schrieb phil: > So, is everone running skencil with python 2.4.4 succeeding? I just tried the Ubuntu Skencil package for Ubuntu 7.04, and I get the error messages which you reported. The Ubuntu Skencil package for Ubuntu 7.04 has been build against Python 2.5. This is an error of the Ubuntu packagers ("Masters of the Universe" MOTU). The bug is known to the Ubuntu developers, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/skencil/+bugs Yours sincerely Tobias Hilbricht From phillip.watts at anvilcom.com Wed Jul 4 23:11:25 2007 From: phillip.watts at anvilcom.com (phil) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:11:25 -0500 Subject: [Skencil-users] skencil/feisty? Message-ID: <200707041611.25438.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> I noticed a bug fix ( v 688 ?) for using skencil on Ubuntu feisty or 7.04. 0n 6-29-07 So I did apt-get update; apt-get install skencil. Nothing changed about my seg fault. Can someone tell me how to get the correct version AND whether I should have python 2.4 or 2.5 installed? Thanks. From bernhard at intevation.de Thu Jul 5 17:22:58 2007 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:22:58 +0200 Subject: [Skencil-users] skencil/feisty? In-Reply-To: <200707041611.25438.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> References: <200707041611.25438.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> Message-ID: <200707051722.59707.bernhard@intevation.de> On Wednesday 04 July 2007 23:11, phil wrote: > I noticed a bug fix ( v 688 ?) for using skencil on > Ubuntu feisty or 7.04. ?0n 6-29-07 > > So I did apt-get update; apt-get install skencil. > Nothing changed about my seg fault. Maybe report this to the Ubuntu people (packagers). > Can someone tell me how to get the correct version > AND whether I should have python 2.4 or 2.5 installed? It is possible to package Skencil for both revisions of python, this just need to be done in harmony with the other python package of your installation. That is the task of the packagers. You could install Skencil manually, it would be some work, but afterwards you would be independend from the packagers. Bernhard R. -- Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net (Free Software Company) Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com. Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070705/903e173f/attachment.pgp From igor.e.novikov at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 11:58:32 2007 From: igor.e.novikov at gmail.com (Igor Novikov) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:58:32 +0300 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <23f7fc190705220139h417b9cbfr51f820a70d24cad@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190705220140u1713d600lfe0020d5f681cc7c@mail.gmail.com> <200706212144.07903.bernhard@intevation.de> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> Message-ID: <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Sorry for delay in responding - just summer is a vocation season. There are many issues were discussed therefore I split my answer on several points: 1. "sK1" name vs "Skencil" name. I think this question is not a main problem of the project. If editor will be useful and will have really practical features it will get own users community. 2. Community. On this moment sK1 has own community, predominatingly Russian and Ukrainian community. And sK1 related threads on forums even popular than such flames as "Gimp vs Photoshop" Note: Russian community accounts "sK1" name more preferable. 2. Project components usage. Unfortunately, Skencil, and relatively sK1, internal design is unperfect. Coding style has no accurate support of MVC pattern. For example, in model implementation (rectangle etc.) we can find lines like: AddCmd(....skpixmap...) That is the model directly uses certain controller and view and we have mixed model-view-controller implementation. And such example isn't unique. Therefore even in command line mode Skencil requires and loads Xlib and Tk depended components. So, Skensil/sK1 should be deeply refactored to separate components code. 3. Multiplatform task Often people say "Skencil is almost pure Python code", i.e. "some small efforts" and we get truly multiplatform editor. But really Skencil has 3-language source code: Python, Tcl/Tk and C. Pure Tcl/Tk code is seldom, only several direct calls. But Skencil specific C modules are used almost in all packages. All model objects have C based representation and all drawing operation are also C based. The main modules are: paxmodule (Xlib based drawing) and sketchmodule (objects representation). Unfortunately on this level MVC pattern is broken also. These modules are crossdepended and funtctions use Xlib types everywhere. Therefore to achive real multiplatform feature we need reimplement these modules and may be reimplement a large part of Python-based code. We have started working upon this issue in our new project - UniConvertor ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/uniconvertor) which should substitute Xara's freezed Uber-Convertor. Project status is mature and current version is 1.0RC1. UniConvertor doesn't depend on Xlib functions or data types (Cairo binding is also removed) therefore the project is multiplatform. Release version will be equipped by multiplatform build script based on distutils (Skencil setup.py is not multiplatform because it uses Python universal Makefile but not distutils build system). Of course, the most popular feature of the project is CDR file conversation into SVG format. 5. sK1 vs Inkscape Of course sK1 is not useful on this moment. The most problematic issue is a fonts handling. Also inherited Skencil document model is unperfect. For example gradient fill representation, text object, image object are primitive and often depend on Xlib possibilities. But sK1 really faster than Inskape (I talk about Cairo mode with antialiasing and alphachannel support), requires smaller system resources, supports real CMYK colors (and there is no problem adding color models like CMY, Lab etc.), generates CMYK-based postscript, has color managment and a good kit of native importers (for example, Inkscape team are waiting for UniConvertor release to utilize CDR importer). Modern tile-based GUI should look better on Win32 and MacOS X than ported GTK applications. More over for these platform special themes can be created using native widgets. Highly important task is multiplatforming, but we already have multiplatform engine mock-up which works on *nix, MacOS X and Win32. Unfortunately, this task requires almost complete reimplementation of Skencil derived code. We hope that the result will be presented on LGM 2008. So assuming we can say that sK1 has a chance to be better than Inkscape. Sincerely, Igor Novikov sK1 Team http://sk1.sf.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070712/d900c0b1/attachment.html From wbaxter at gmail.com Thu Jul 12 23:49:45 2007 From: wbaxter at gmail.com (Bill Baxter) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:49:45 +0900 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <23f7fc190705220139h417b9cbfr51f820a70d24cad@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190705220140u1713d600lfe0020d5f681cc7c@mail.gmail.com> <200706212144.07903.bernhard@intevation.de> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Howdy, On 7/12/07, Igor Novikov wrote: > 5. sK1 vs Inkscape > > Of course sK1 is not useful on this moment. > Highly important task is multiplatforming, but we already have multiplatform > engine mock-up which works on *nix, MacOS X and Win32. Unfortunately, this > task requires almost complete reimplementation of Skencil derived code. We > hope that the result will be presented on LGM 2008. > > So assuming we can say that sK1 has a chance to be better than Inkscape. LOL. Yes I suppose you're right. If you have the resources to basically rewrite Skencil/sK1 from scratch then there's no question that it has a chance to be better than Inkscape at some point. :-) I spent a few hours myself trying to see if I could de-XLib-ify the core drawing model parts of Skencil and came to the conclusion it would be faster to re-implement the things I need from scratch using Pyrex. At that point I pretty much lost hope for seeing a cross-platform Skencil any time soon. But if you guys are taking on the challenge of rewriting that stuff then great! Sounds like you've already made a lot of headway. --bb From igor.e.novikov at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 11:25:25 2007 From: igor.e.novikov at gmail.com (Igor Novikov) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:25:25 +0300 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <23f7fc190705220139h417b9cbfr51f820a70d24cad@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190705220140u1713d600lfe0020d5f681cc7c@mail.gmail.com> <200706212144.07903.bernhard@intevation.de> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23f7fc190707130225idb02618g53990144b6ea538c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bill, At that point I pretty much lost hope for seeing a > cross-platform Skencil any time soon. But if you guys are taking on > the challenge of rewriting that stuff then great! Sounds like you've > already made a lot of headway. It is not a such complex task. Xlib based implementation is a most complex thing. For example, we implemented Cairo rendering in sK1 and this engine is simpler. And using our experiments I suppose that we _can_ reimplement native modules to achieve multiplatform feature. Also Pyrex is not a best choice for multiplatform tool. Try using ctypes (FFI). Last note: you forget one issue. :) In outsourcing there is a byword: "If you need complex and high-cost project, just select American team. Large and low-cost project - you need team from Bangalore. But if your project is an impossible - Russian team only!" Of course it is a joke, but this joke has real background :) Sincerely, Igor Novikov sK1 Team http://sk1.sf.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070713/b82dfa28/attachment.htm From wbaxter at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 11:39:57 2007 From: wbaxter at gmail.com (Bill Baxter) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:39:57 +0900 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707130225idb02618g53990144b6ea538c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <23f7fc190705220139h417b9cbfr51f820a70d24cad@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190705220140u1713d600lfe0020d5f681cc7c@mail.gmail.com> <200706212144.07903.bernhard@intevation.de> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190707130225idb02618g53990144b6ea538c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/13/07, Igor Novikov wrote: > Hi Bill, > It is not a such complex task. Xlib based implementation is a most complex > thing. It's complex relative to my goal, which was to get something working in a day or less. :-) > Also Pyrex is not a best choice for multiplatform tool. Try using ctypes > (FFI). What's non portable about Pyrex? I picked it thinking it was as cross-platform as Python. Not so? Maybe I need to take another look at ctypes. I thought ctypes was primarily for wrapping pre-existing C code, and Pyrex was better/easier if you wanted to write an extension module from scratch and didn't mind it being tied to Python. > Last note: you forget one issue. :) In outsourcing there is a byword: > "If you need complex and high-cost project, just select American team. > Large and low-cost project - you need team from Bangalore. > But if your project is an impossible - Russian team only!" > Of course it is a joke, but this joke has real background :) :-) Maybe you guys need to pick up the torch for the Pyrex guys too. :-) --bb From igor.e.novikov at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 13:00:07 2007 From: igor.e.novikov at gmail.com (Igor Novikov) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:00:07 +0300 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707130354r125ecf57g75114fc651131b8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <23f7fc190705220140u1713d600lfe0020d5f681cc7c@mail.gmail.com> <200706212144.07903.bernhard@intevation.de> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190707130225idb02618g53990144b6ea538c@mail.gmail.com> <23f7fc190707130354r125ecf57g75114fc651131b8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23f7fc190707130400yd640b2dh391b7a92966728a@mail.gmail.com> > It's complex relative to my goal, which was to get something working > in a day or less. :-) Of course it is not one-day task. Remapping of Xlib function calls to Win32 GDI is not trivial task. What's non portable about Pyrex? I picked it thinking it was as > cross-platform as Python. Not so? Maybe I need to take another look > at ctypes. I thought ctypes was primarily for wrapping pre-existing C > code, and Pyrex was better/easier if you wanted to write an extension > module from scratch and didn't mind it being tied to Python. Drawing module uses Xlib or GDI or Aqua, i.e. pre-existing C code. Therefore ctypes based implementation will be more flexible and doesn't require recompilation on each platform. It's a pure Python code without native part. Igor. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070713/b3024690/attachment.html From bernhard at intevation.de Wed Jul 18 10:44:24 2007 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:44:24 +0200 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200707181044.29298.bernhard@intevation.de> Hi Igor, On Thursday 12 July 2007 11:58, Igor Novikov wrote: > Sorry for delay in responding - just summer is a vocation season. no problem, we are slow here often enough. > There are many issues were discussed therefore I split my answer on several > points: I will even split my answer in severl threads. > 1. "sK1" name vs "Skencil" name. > > I think this question is not a main problem of the project. If editor will > be useful and will have really practical features it will get own users > community. I agree that it is not top priority, but I also think it is important that the three lines are bundled and a name is chosen that people and former developers can identify with. I like the "Skencil - Sk1" approach, which is somehow a compromise, but it makes "Skencil" the main part of course. On the other hand: Whoever is most active should have the highest weight in the discussion. > 2. Community. > > On this moment sK1 has own community, predominatingly Russian and Ukrainian > community. And sK1 related threads on forums even popular than such flames > as "Gimp vs Photoshop" This is good to know! > Note: Russian community accounts "sK1" name more preferable. This was to be expected because you were active in these circles. So the question is which drawback to take: Educate the more German/English/US users that we move the name or the Russion/Ukrainian users. One argument that I consider having some weight is that "Skencil" is much more distinctive, so we would avoid name and trademark clashes. (Check a search engine about "sk1" and "skencil".) Okay, this is second priority, I will address other issue on another email. Bernhard -- Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net (Free Software Company) Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com. Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070718/2edf2a51/attachment.pgp From bernhard at intevation.de Wed Jul 18 10:52:08 2007 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:52:08 +0200 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200707181052.09063.bernhard@intevation.de> On Thursday 12 July 2007 11:58, Igor Novikov wrote: > 2. Project components usage. > > Unfortunately, Skencil, and relatively sK1, internal design is unperfect. > Coding style has no accurate support of MVC pattern. I think we should get into the technical details on the development list: http://lists.wald.intevation.org/mailman/listinfo/skencil-devel So only a few comments here, please reply to skencil-devel. > Often people say "Skencil is almost pure Python code", i.e. "some small > efforts" and we get truly multiplatform editor. But really Skencil has > 3-language source code: Python, Tcl/Tk and C. The limitations of Skencil 0.6 line was noticed a few years ago by Bernhard H. and he started the 0.7 line with the first rewrite step to seperate the graphical interface. Did you check on the improvements of 0.7? > We have started working upon this issue in our new project - UniConvertor ( > http://sourceforge.net/projects/uniconvertor) which should substitute > Xara's freezed Uber-Convertor. Project status is mature and current version > is 1.0RC1. Interesting, I would put this under the umbrella of the new group (however it is named). > (Skencil setup.py is not multiplatform because it uses Python > universal Makefile but not distutils build system). Yes I think distutils was not readily available when Skencil's build system was constructed. > 5. sK1 vs Inkscape > > Of course sK1 is not useful on this moment. The most problematic issue is a > fonts handling. Also inherited Skencil document model is unperfect. The attempt to remedy the font problem was Skencil 0.7. If you write it is not useful, how useful is it compared to Skencil 0.6 (which is quite useful, though it of course has a lot of limitations). > Highly important task is multiplatforming, but we already have > multiplatform engine mock-up which works on *nix, MacOS X and Win32. > Unfortunately, this task requires almost complete reimplementation of > Skencil derived code. We hope that the result will be presented on LGM > 2008. Are you developing this in the open? In your last email you did not address the question of infrastructue, I must say that I do not like sourceforge a lot because of the massive use of advertisment and that it is not Free Software. Best, Bernhard -- Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net (Free Software Company) Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com. Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070718/5d113148/attachment.pgp From phillip.watts at anvilcom.com Thu Jul 19 04:03:14 2007 From: phillip.watts at anvilcom.com (phil) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:03:14 -0500 Subject: [Skencil-users] Skencil not working Message-ID: <200707182103.14595.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> I am not completely non technical, I was a software developer for 20 years. Lots of C and Python and Linux. Now I am a high school math teacher and love to lecture from a wacom tablet. Gimp is OK. So is inkscape. But I would love to try Skencil, which is pythonish. But can't get it to work. I run Kubuntu feisty. The binary install from apt-get gave me seg fault when I ran Skencil. Downloaded the latest source. setup.py configure complained it could not find tcl/tk8.4 I finally harcoded the script to /usr/lib/tk8.4 and it worked. Then build failed trying to include tk headers. Installed those. Then build failed trying to include XShm.h. So I defined that out. Then it failed on something else. Gave up, wiped all Skencil from my disk and tried apt-get again (a month later). Still seg faults. Can anyone help? Thanks From bernhard at intevation.de Thu Jul 19 15:06:08 2007 From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:08 +0200 Subject: [Skencil-users] Skencil not working In-Reply-To: <200707182103.14595.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> References: <200707182103.14595.phillip.watts@anvilcom.com> Message-ID: <200707191506.09296.bernhard@intevation.de> On Thursday 19 July 2007 04:03, phil wrote: > Can anyone help? ?Thanks Sorry for the difficulties. Did you file a report with the Ubuntu people? One way to potentially help you is if you would want to grant somebody remote access to your machine. First step would be to identify the development packages you would need to install to build and then run Skencil. On Debian XShm.h is in a package call libxext-dev. To build Skencil 0.6 you would need to have a full X11 development environment installed. Bernhard -- Managing Director - Owner: www.intevation.net (Free Software Company) Germany Coordinator: fsfeurope.org. Coordinator: www.Kolab-Konsortium.com. Intevation GmbH, Osnabr?ck, DE; Amtsgericht Osnabr?ck, HRB 18998 Gesch?ftsf?hrer Frank Koormann, Bernhard Reiter, Dr. Jan-Oliver Wagner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070719/a1dbb13d/attachment.pgp From igor.e.novikov at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 00:28:17 2007 From: igor.e.novikov at gmail.com (Igor Novikov) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:28:17 +0300 Subject: [Skencil-users] Fwd: Fwd: Join forces for skencil1/sK1? In-Reply-To: <23f7fc190707241526h6c6b124ex4fec61f2e6f93267@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061107144452.GA16203@rcpc42.vub.ac.be> <1182507646.11766.63.camel@phoebus> <23f7fc190707120258i526e6fd6lbbc442198e7ffe60@mail.gmail.com> <200707181052.09063.bernhard@intevation.de> <23f7fc190707241526h6c6b124ex4fec61f2e6f93267@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23f7fc190707241528r726d963as22cc28f5861669bd@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, >The limitations of Skencil 0.6 line was noticed a few years ago by Bernhard H. >and he started the 0.7 line with the first rewrite step to seperate >the graphical interface. Did you check on the improvements of 0.7? Yes, branch 0.7 has a better code style, but sometimes xlib is just substituted by gdk ;) >Yes I think distutils was not readily available when Skencil's build system >was constructed. It would be great to improve 0.6 branch build - this software is still popular. >The attempt to remedy the font problem was Skencil 0.7. >If you write it is not useful, how useful is it compared to Skencil 0.6(which >is quite useful, though it of course has a lot of limitations). Well, I compiled 0.7 branch but text instrument results exception and dailog about Times-Roman font absence. On my opinion vector editor should have complex font manager which uses FreeType or similar libs. >> Highly important task is multiplatforming, but we already have >> multiplatform engine mock-up which works on *nix, MacOS X and Win32. >> Unfortunately, this task requires almost complete reimplementation of >> Skencil derived code. We hope that the result will be presented on LGM >> 2008. >Are you developing this in the open? Oh, no! It's just a sketch. Not a good code example. :) General idea is using Cairo to paint inside Tk Canvas, i.e. only Tk and Cairo datatypes without platform specific libs and ctypes usage. Ideally it would be great avoiding native extensions at all. Regards, Igor Novikov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wald.intevation.org/pipermail/skencil-users/attachments/20070725/5f07d31d/attachment.htm