[Gpg4win-devel] claws extensions

[Marcus Brinkmann]

Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 29. Oktober 2008, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:
>>> It seems that with WiX and mono it may be possible to build MSI
>>> installers on GNU/Linux.
>> This is not correct.  You would need at least WiX, mono, and msi.dll, a
>> proprietary Microsoft platform DLL used by WiX.  There may be other DLL
>> dependencies I don't know about.  To my knowledge, WiX needs this DLL to
>> build the installer.
> 
> Hmm, do you just need the msi.dll to be present or do you need it to be 
> runable (via Wine or Windows)?
> I might have missunderstood some of the explanations I've got about WiX.

It definitely needs to be runnable.  WiX uses it to handle MSI files.  Now, all
this is a long time ago, so I may misremember.  But that's what I recall.  You
could just try and find it out easily enough.

>> This means that the 
>> software stack must be freely licensed, but in practice it also should be
>> approachable.  A different way to say the same thing: Software freedom is
>> not just a check-box requirement. 
>> Sustainable solutions require a functioning ecosystem.  
> 
> Goes all without saying.

Sure, we have all been around long enough to know everything about these issues.
 But it wasn't said, so I said it.

> Still practice always requires compromisses
> to be useful. Just think of FSF using proprietary operating systems
> in the beginning. I think that was completeley okay, because it was
> for the first part of a larger road in the right direction.

This time is long over, at least for the FSF.  There are plenty of alternatives.

>> In the free software world, NSIS+mingw32 is such an
>> ecosystem, while mono+wix would not be, even if it would work technically.
> 
> Okay, there is that msi.dll, but this could be considered the operating
> system where the packages runs to some degree.

If you are interested in justifying a decision to ignore this problem, you could
say this and very likely safe your face for a majority in the community, and
maybe even escape some license restrictions.

I'm going to give you a hand, though, and accept that given an infinite pool of
resources you could even try to reverse engineer and reimplement msi.dll for the
wine project.

> If wix+mono can run on 
> GNU/Linux, I do not see why this is not such an ecosystem (yet).
>
>>  In particular, to my knowledge WiX is not part of any of  GNU/Linux
>> distribution.
> 
> A minor practical drawback, yes.
> Could be changed, as it is Free Software as far as I know.

You didn't get my point.  The fact it is not included in Debian illustrates that
WiX plays no central role (and not even a minor role) in the free software
universe, unsurprisingly.  Us creating a package for it and getting it into
Debian alone would not change that, of course.

As such, investing into WiX would be a major risk factor concerning sustainable
development and broader impact.  Microsoft could even try to retaliate with
patents or otherwise interfering with WiX development.  This is very unlikely of
course, just as unlikely as that a vital bridge between the free software
community and the WiX software will be created.

Anyway, a discussion of political and circumstantial issues is rather pointless
in the absence of a working technical proposal.  And finding out if a feasible
technical solution can exist at all is likely to cost a lot of money.  Given
what I know about MSI, which is only a tiny part, I am scepticle, for reasons I
have laid out in the discussion.  But it would be wrong to move into the
ideological discussion just because nobody has the time or energy to continue
the technical discussion.

Here is a small list of open technical issues.  "Can" means really: "do we have
the skills and the resources (=money, time) to do this and is it worth the effort?".

1. Can WiX (be made to) run with Mono on Windows?
2. Can WiX (be made to) run with Mono on Wine + msi.dll?
3. Can WiX (be made to) run with .Net on Wine + msi.dll?
4. Can msi.dll be re-implemented for wine?
5. Can we train enough people in free software and WiX?
6. Can we implement all features in WiX we need?
7. Can we extend WiX in the future?
8. ... with free software only?
9. Can we put resources aside in the case of future problems wrt compatibility,
legal issues?
10. What happens if WiX is discontinued?
11. What happens if MSI is discontinued?
12. Can we provide free documentation for MSI and WiX?

Thanks,
Marcus